Collin: 0:00

hey, Joel. How's it going?

Joel: 0:01

Yeah. Good. How are you?

Collin: 0:04

uh, as you know, I'm, uh, I've been driving from Portland, Oregon to, uh, Atlanta, Georgia, with a detour going through like Chicago and Indiana. Uh, I'm currently in Chesterton, Indiana. And, uh, I, so, so here's what happened. I went, so I checked in and I'm like, you know, we were talking. I'm like, all right, we're gonna record the podcast. And I go up to the room, I get all set up, I put my headphones on, and I realize, uh, they put me in a room directly over where someone was mixing cement. And so that was obviously not going to be ideal. So what I did was I went downstairs and I talked to the, uh, the woman at the, at the front desk and I was like, listen, you put me in this room. I don't know if you know, I'm a very important podcaster. Uh, you, you know, You know, I, I didn't actually meet any fans on the way, uh, from Portland, but, you know, it's, uh, which is surprising, but I, you know, some, listen, I'm a very important podcaster and, uh, it just isn't gonna be the fidelity that we need. Can, do you have a, do you have a conference room? And she's like, um, yeah, no, I can't do that. And I'm like, okay. She's like, well, we have a business center. I'm like, well, thing is, I can still hear the country music you're playing here. And she's like, that sucks for you. And then the other person was like, uh, well we could turn the lobby music off. And I was like, perfect. I was gonna throw a joke in there about, like, I put my hand on the thing was like, surely there's something we can do. You know, like use my pretty privilege. But I did not. Um, cuz I don't have it anyway, so, uh, so, so that's the story. It's been a really long time. I'm gonna actually. Ask chat g p t right now, what is an equivalent distance from London? Cuz I mean, I dunno, it's the only city I can name in England, uh, right now from London, someone could drive to as driving from Portland, Oregon to Atlanta, Georgia. Let's see if it, let's see what it says. It's about 28, 40 miles, 45, 70 kilometers. A equivalent distance, uh, would be if someone was started in London and then drove, uh, to Moscow in Russia. So that's about the distance that I will have gone one way for this trip.

Joel: 2:28

And then you have to drive the whole way back again.

Collin: 2:30

Yeah. And then I have to ride the whole way back again. But, uh, but I'll tell you, it's been, um, it's been really interesting. I've seen. Uh, the number of, I think I'd gone to 12 states before this, uh, in the United States, and now I will have gone to like 26 or 27 by the time I get back. So I went from Idaho, Wyoming, Nebraska, uh, and then Iowa and Illinois. Um, and, and it's, it's been interesting. The, uh, a lot of the country is similar, but it's also different in, uh, in inter, in different ways. And so it's cool to. Have the opportunity to see that, um, if you know what I mean.

Joel: 3:10

Mm-hmm.

Collin: 3:11

Uh, a lot of it's very empty, is also what I found out. Um, there are a lot of, uh, very empty fields. Um, but, uh, but, but I have gone some really cool places. Uh, Omaha was a real highlight. Um, I played in Davenport last night, which is in Iowa. Oh, I have to, I'm sorry. I You haven't, I haven't let you say anything, but I will tell you my favorite part of this trip is that, um, you may not know this, but I am a huge Star Trek fan. I, I love it. Since I've been a kid and yesterday I went to, I'll send you a picture of this. I went to, in, uh, Riverside, Iowa, the future birthplace of James T. Kirk, captain Kirk. Which they have like a big plaque there, and you can get your picture next to it. It's really, do you ever know somebody who like, makes one thing their whole personality, like they're into something now? That's, that's their thing. This town has made being the future birthplace of James T. Kirk, their whole personality. And they have, uh, and so what happened was, I was take, I was taking pictures of it and then a guy came, uh, from the post office across the street and he's like, Hey, do you wanna see the museum? Because I saw they, they actually have like a little Star Trek

Joel: 4:22

Oh my God.

Collin: 4:24

Uh, but I thought they had closed cause it looked like they closed right before I got there. And he's like, listen, I'll take you. Um, and he took me, and I'm just gonna say it was very exciting for me. Uh, I, I got to, I got to see, uh, uh, data's desk from the next generation, like they have it.

Joel: 4:44

Mm-hmm.

Collin: 4:44

They had a bunch of other cool stuff. I spent like$150 on their merch. Um, so that was I cr may, may have cried a little bit. Uh, and the, the impression I got talking to this guy was that he's like, listen, I meet a lot of Star Trek nerds. You are a little bit much. Um, anyway, how's your week been?

Joel: 5:06

Yeah, it's been good. Um, I, so last week I was on holiday in Snowdonia uh, climbing mountains, which is a lot of fun. Uh, so just kind of like getting back into, into things this

Collin: 5:21

Mm-hmm. I really enjoy. I, I don't know anything about, uh, the uk so this is just my impression and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I really enjoy this knowing two things now that are in that part of, uh, the world, uh, is that there's a place where you went for snow and rock climbing and it was called Snowdonia. And there's also a place that I'm aware of where people go that's like beachy, called Beachy Head or something like that.

Joel: 5:48

Mm-hmm.

Collin: 5:48

I enjoy that. I enjoy they really name it what it is.

Joel: 5:51

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, so many of the names, I think that their history is like, like just pretty literal. So, um, I think I, I, for, for example, um, Oxford, right? It's probably comes from, uh, A Ford where there were s

Collin: 6:17

I love that.

Joel: 6:18

it's like pretty much all of the, the names of places you can kind of figure out the original words and like what they were. Um, there's like a great big, I should chuck this in the show notes. Uh, I read a really interesting article about this actually. Um, um, and yeah, it's kind of like this history of just very literal place names,

Collin: 6:41

That's amazing. I would definitely read that. Um,

Joel: 6:45

Yeah, but Snow, I think Snowdonia is named after a mountain like the, the Mountain Snowden, unless it's the other way around. And Snowden is named after Snowdonia,

Collin: 6:56

Oh, I just took it as, it's a snowy mountain, so they're like, it's snowdonia.

Joel: 7:00

Yeah, no, it's, uh, I mean, there, there are snowy mountains there in the winter, but I mean, none of the mountains are huge. It's, it's the uk, like we don't really have big mountains. Um,

Collin: 7:13

People, especially on the east coast here, like to, um, get mad. Although I think mostly they take it, uh, they, they take it well because they have the Appalachians over here, which are like, Which are mountains, but they're, uh, they're pretty short. If you ever look at like a topographical map map of the United States, like the Rocky Mountains and Pacific Northwest are like so much higher that I like to, that I, I think it's a, um, it's a fun pastime of people on the west coast to make fun of, uh, the East Coast for not having mountains will be like, you know, it's gotta be really nice to have mountains that you can see over if you stand on a tall enough chair or whatever.

Joel: 7:48

Yeah, you, I mean, uh, I think some of the stuff that we were climbing in Snowdonia wouldn't even be classified as a mountain. Uh, more of like a Welsh Monroe, I think would be the technical, technical town. But it's still fun. Like, uh, it, you can, you can like just go out and like, hike for like five, six hours, uh, and, and cover like a couple of these Monroes. So, um, they're not huge.

Collin: 8:21

Yeah. Welsh Monroe sounds like a character from a, from an Agatha Christie story.

Joel: 8:25

Yeah. Um, It just means like, I think it's like the big, big hills that aren't quite mountains yet or something like that. Um, but yeah, the, the, um, the one I enjoyed the most was, uh, there's a mountain or probably a Monroe called Trifa, and it just has a really fun route up the front, um, called the North. What is it called? The North Ridge. Um, and it's just amazing. It's so beautiful. It's, it's really steep. Uh, I think it's a grade one scramble, which is basically as steep as you're gonna get without really wanting to, like, have extra protection, like ropes and harnesses and things. Um, but then like, just has the most, it's so exposed, like most amazing views. So, It was fun.

Collin: 9:23

You know, I never knew you were so athletic until, uh, until you went on this trip, and now I feel like somebody should not be able to be that good at programming and also be that athletic. It feels kind of unfair.

Joel: 9:33

It's just like, I mean, they're, they're not that big, but, um, they are pretty local. It takes me like three hours to get down there. So, um, it's just a, an easy, easy break from. The flat, uh, kind of like countryside of Oxford share, which can get a bit samey.

Collin: 9:54

That makes sense. It is very flat. Uh, by the way, in the p in the, cuz I've only really lived on the West coast, uh, and it is not very flat there. And, um, it is very flat in the Midwest, comparatively. Like I have not yet gone through any states where it's the, like, you know, it's like looking out onto the ocean, which I'm told is coming. But I have not yet seen that. Um, although it is, it is very flat. It is very, uh, Wyoming was not flat, but like Nebraska, I were pretty flat. Um, but anyway, yeah. So this is all ending. I'm going to go toRailsConf in Atlanta, assuming I make it the rest of the way. So fingers crossed. Uh, Which starts on Monday. So the plan is I will leave, uh, I'm gonna stay here tonight and then leave here tomorrow, which will be Friday morning. Uh, and then stay in kind of southern Tennessee, which is home of the Dollywood Theme Park, which is a theme park created by Dolly Parton. Uh, who is, I don't know if she is as beloved in the UK as she is here, but she is very beloved in the United States and she made a theme park, so I thought that would be a, a fun thing to do. It looks amazing. You should look it up. Uh, and she's such a great person. Like I think she, I think she actually built this. Um, my impression is the reason it's in kind of rural Tennessee is not because she's like, I could make so much money. It was because it's like, this will bring so much money to like the local economy of this, you know, place that she's kind of from. And I, I think that's amazing. Um, and then after that I will be at, uh, at, at, at the conference and hopefully meeting lots of cool people, uh, you know, giving out, uh, rooftop ruby stickers. Uh, you know,

Joel: 11:39

haven't seen the, can you show me the stickers?

Collin: 11:42

I, you know, I don't have it, but it looks just like the artwork. It looks just like the podcast art.

Joel: 11:46

All right. You'll have to send me some,

Collin: 11:48

I was gonna say, I need to mail you some cuz you are

Joel: 11:50

I'm gonna need some for Brighton, Ruby,

Collin: 11:52

Yes, that's what I was gonna

Joel: 11:53

which is coming up.

Collin: 11:54

Yeah. So have you been to a lot of conferences? Which ones have you been to?

Joel: 11:58

I haven't been to a ton of conferences, to be honest. Um, I went to Rails Conv once, uh, and I think that's it actually.

Collin: 12:08

Which one were you at?

Joel: 12:09

Uh, it was the one in, was it Pittsburgh? I want to say. Uh, I can't quite remember which year it was.

Collin: 12:19

Mm-hmm.

Joel: 12:21

Um, I think it was Pittsburgh.

Collin: 12:24

Yeah, I went, um, Pittsburgh's great, by the way. I don't know what you thought of it, but I, uh, I wasn't expecting much honestly, when I went to Pittsburgh before I went for, um, when I worked at Apple, we had a hackathon that they fill everybody out for and, um, I wasn't expecting much and I actually really liked it. I thought it was a really cool city. Um, I think P cities in the United States, underrated Portland, Pittsburgh, uh, Philadelphia, maybe. Um, Yeah, so I, yeah, I went to Rails Camp last year and I also went to Rails Camp. Which Rails Camp is cool. Do you know about Rails Camp?

Joel: 13:01

No.

Collin: 13:02

Rails camp is amazing. It's run by, uh, a link to it, but it's run by this woman, uh, up in Seattle and she puts a whole thing together herself for name escaping me at the moment cuz I've just driven 2,400 miles. Uh, but. She basically creates like an adult summer camp out in really like gorgeous, like, uh, remote locations. And so,

Joel: 13:25

sounds amazing.

Collin: 13:26

it really is.

Joel: 13:27

long is it?

Collin: 13:28

uh, it's like three days, two, three days, and it's like three days. So last year I think you would've loved this. It was in, um, cascade National Park. Up in the Pacific Northwest, uh, which is just like, I'll send you the picture. It's like the most beau, one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. It's all these giant mountains. It's way out in the middle of nowhere. And um, like the kind of lake where it looks like impossibly blue. Have you ever seen that kind of a thing, like a glacial lake? It's

Joel: 13:53

I'm looking at a picture now and I'm on the website and the, the title is, Gathering for the software community to meet and learn from each other while, uh, getting outta the city to unplug around a campfire, which sounds amazing.

Collin: 14:06

It was amazing. I would, I would love to get you to go to one of these,

Joel: 14:09

I will definitely,

Collin: 14:11

The next one is in Hawaii this year, which is also amazing, uh, which is a pretty long flight for you. But, um, but the next one's in Hawaii, I'm going again. That, that was, that was a great one. Uh, it's really small. It was maybe, maybe 40 people. But y'all stay in bunks, like you're at a summer camp, um, and it's like 40 people, but it's like the, it's like the 40 coolest people. Like everybody there is somebody that you're just like, Great to be around and, you know, has been around for a long time and is really like in the community. So you meet so many great people that I really, I really loved Rails camp. Uh, and

Joel: 14:44

they do any talks or anything like that? Or

Collin: 14:46

no, it's not really a conference. It's more like you have like activities. Like they took us for a, um, like one that I really enjoyed was they took us on one that was going up into the woods and they taught us how to like, What is it? How to identify all the different kinds of trees in the Pacific Northwest, um,

Joel: 15:07

this looks amazing.

Collin: 15:08

yeah, it's really good. Rails camp is amazing. I, I would say I recommend everybody go except that they don't sell very many tickets, so I recommend they go after I've bought my ticket each year. Um, cuz yeah, that's one I wouldn't wanna miss. Uh, and I'm gonna cut this part out, but I'll just tell you, I, I had this plan when I went there and. It was that I'm like, man, I'm going to this. You know, I'm pretty new in the Ruby world. How am I gonna make friends? And I thought to myself, people are coming from all over the world to go to this. And you know what we have in Portland? Legal weed. I'm gonna buy a pack of gummies and take them with me. And that's how I'm gonna make friends at this thing. And you know what? It worked.

Joel: 15:48

You should not cut this out.

Collin: 15:50

It totally worked. Um, I remember I gave, uh, you know, I, I was just giving like little p I cut them up, so, you know, so nobody's getting like super high. Um, but like, I gave one to a guy and he was like, listen, I haven't like done anything like this in like 20 years, right. Or longer, 20 or 30 years. And he was, and I, and it was the same night we were all singing karaoke at the camp. Which, by the way, I love karaoke. I used to sing in a band. I don't know if you know that, but, uh, so I love, I love doing karaoke and we are all doing that. And he's like, I gave it to him and maybe 30 minutes later he's like, I don't know if it's working or whatever. Right? And then like 30 minutes later after that, he comes over to me and he puts his hands like out of four inches apart. And he's like, that's perfect. It's like, I feel like I'm like this far off the ground and I feel amazing. And he gave me a hug and he is like, thank you. And. And um, and it was just full of really great people like that. Uh, yeah, it was a, it was a really, that's a really, really good time. Um,RailsConf is also a good time, but it's very different, right? Cause they have like talks and it's like, it's like a conference.

Joel: 16:46

Yeah. Yeah.

Collin: 16:48

I'm a big fan of the hallway track though which is the people you meet in between talks and things.

Joel: 16:53

Right. Yeah, I think that like, for me, that is like the best thing about conferences. Um, not that I've been to that many conferences to be honest, but, um, The talks. The thing is you can like watch the talks online anyway. Like I can just sit on YouTube and watch all the talks from all the conferences.

Collin: 17:15

Yeah.

Joel: 17:16

Um, but like actually going and meeting people, that's, that's what you can't really do anywhere else. That's why I love the idea of girls camp. I think this is awesome. I have been thinking like it would be pretty cool to do something like this, like, Get a bunch of people who are into rails, into Ruby, um, and like do like a ski trip or like something.

Collin: 17:41

Hmm.

Joel: 17:42

Uh, and, and this looks like this is exactly the same,

Collin: 17:45

It's exactly

Joel: 17:45

idea. Like you're not actually, it's not like a, a conference conference, but you get all the best bits of a conference,

Collin: 17:53

yeah. Absolutely.

Joel: 17:54

but like out outta the city.

Collin: 17:56

yeah, so the only Ruby comps I've been to were last year, cuz I, I wasn't really doing Ruby professionally before that. Right. So, uh, I was very lucky though, I would say I. It's kind of like I do kind, I did kind of feel a little bit like I was the main character in an anime or something because I, I started doing Ruby professionally, you know, after just like being into it on my own, uh, you know, after I stopped working at Apple and then, uh, that same year they just happened to putRailsConf in the town I live in. And then that same year, rails camp was also like, you know, a couple hours away. So I felt like that was big, big main character and energy for me that year. Um, although, uh, although I would've gone even if it was further, and I am going and it is further, uh, yeah, I really like the, you know, I, I, I do appreciate the talks. Um, I've been to a lot of conferences though, other than Ruby related ones. I, uh, when I first started getting into iOS stuff back in like 2009 ish, um, I didn't know anything. I'm just like, I'm gonna submit a talk. Why not? I'm like, I know how to use the address book api. You know, let you work with contacts. Like I taught myself that one, so I'm like, I'll submit a talk about that. And they accepted it. And I have to say, if somebody is thinking about it and they have an idea for a talk or something like an api, they know or they feel like they could. Now, I really do recommend, uh, submitting talks to these things if you can, because. It makes that other part of like the networking and making friends and connecting, like, so much easier because everybody else already saw you and then it's easy to like, talk to them. You don't feel like, you know, uh, like people will approach you because they want to ask about your talk or like, you know, say, you know, good job or whatever. Uh, so I felt like that really helped me out early on, uh, with the iOS stuff. And then, um, although it's funny because back then I knew nothing and was, uh, Absolutely willing to get in front of a stage and say, and say it to anybody. Now, I think I know some things very nervous about that idea. Scares me a lot more now than it did then. Um, but yeah, another good idea, starting a podcast. I think that's not a good way too, to make friends at conferences. Maybe. I don't know. We'll find out. Um, but anyway, uh, and Jen, you're also going to another one, which is more of just like a one day thing. Uh, you mentioned, uh, Brighton Ruby, which is in June, end of June.

Joel: 20:18

Uh, I can't remember when it is. I'm terrible with dates. It is, yeah. It's right at the end of June. Um, that's right. Uh, and it's, it's not too far from where I live in Oxfordshire. It's like maybe two and a half, three hours, I think at most. Um, but I think, I think I'm probably gonna go up like the day before and. Just to like be around the, there's gonna be a bunch of people arriving, I think.

Collin: 20:45

Yeah.

Joel: 20:46

Uh, and like hanging out around the conference. It's a one day conference, so

Collin: 20:51

Yeah, I, um, I, I, I wanted to go. But you know, things have become somewhat dynamic for me, uh, in the last month or two. Have you heard the last episode? Uh, and so like, I was like, I don't know, maybe, maybe I won't do this one this year. But, um, I was surprised though, uh, when we talked to Tim. I don't know if it made into the show, but that he's also going, which I thought was kind of incredible. Cause I'm like, man, Australia to Australia, to England for a, uh, for a one day conference is, is pretty

Joel: 21:18

how many people come to the UK for this one day conference.

Collin: 21:22

Yeah, absolutely.

Joel: 21:24

kind of crazy.

Collin: 21:25

Yeah. And then, um, yeah, I, I do recommend. So I think, I think the other thing is, um, yeah, so I think I really recommend, like, if you can submit a talk, that's great, but also if you don't submit a talk and you, you know, or even if you do, I, I think it's important at these things. Um, I don't know if you have any tips, but the tips I'm thinking of are one, Uh, don't, don't be on your computer cuz like you can do that at home. Like no matter how exciting of a technology thing you just heard of, it's more important that you like hang out with the people in your community because like that's the thing that is, that's what you're really there for. So I think one is like, probably try and stay off your computer as much as possible. Um, and then, uh, number two, I think probably just for me, cuz I'm not like the most extroverted person, but I really kind of make myself be, which is that? Just introduce yourself to people even if you don't know'em. Like if you're standing behind somebody for lunch or whatever. For me, I think my tip would be just be like, Hey, what's up? Um, I'm calling, I'm whoever, you know?

Joel: 22:26

Mm-hmm. Introduce yourself to people who are on their computers.

Collin: 22:29

Yeah. Be like, get off your goddamn computer. What are you doing? You could be hanging out with me. Have you seen me? I'm cool. No, I mean, introduce yourself to people. Uh, just wherever you are because everybody there is there for the same reason. Like, you don't have to be shy. Because it's all people who are there because they wanna, they wanna make friends, they wanna make connections, you know?

Joel: 22:48

Yeah, I, I really struggle with that. I'm so shy I would not have been able to do that. I think I could probably do it now, but like a few years ago probably would never have been able to do that. Um, you, you, you mentioned like, oh, just submit a talk, but like the idea of doing that is insane to me. Like, Unless I have a complete talk that I'm very proud of, that is completely like well structured and written out and planned in advance. I'm not gonna submit a proposal.

Collin: 23:22

Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to put together a lightning talk about the trip for when I get there, uh, because I, I guess the Lightning talks, my impression is you just, I could be wrong, so if I'm wrong, we'll know when I get there. My impression is it's just kind of a ad hoc thing. You kind of do it when you, you sort of sign up for it at the thing. Um, but it's like a five minute thing. It's very short. Uh, and so I, I want to, so yeah, I'm doing that even, I just, uh, I dunno. I think you have to put yourself out there. You seem like somebody who would. Clearly give an awesome talk about a number of things though. So I think that's funny that you're like, what would I do? You know, because, um, you know, number one, you give a talk about flex. I think that'd be a hit at anywhere you would want to give that talk. And then number two, you know, you just know so much about Ruby and uh, you know, general software development stuff.

Joel: 24:03

I think I could give one. I, I just, I wouldn't, I would need to spend so much time on it that I just don't have. I think for me to be comfortable giving it, I, I, I would need to spend like several weeks

Collin: 24:19

I mean,

Joel: 24:20

it, I, think.

Collin: 24:21

I will say I've given talks where I took the time to like write it and then run through the entire thing by myself a few times and like really practice it. And I've given runs where I didn't kind of write it until the day before. And it makes a big difference.

Joel: 24:37

Yeah, I imagine,

Collin: 24:39

You know, writing an outline for your podcast is sort of similar, you know, if you kind of know what you're gonna do, like you have less of the like, wait, what was I thinking about? And then just having to stop. Um, I, I

Joel: 24:48

po the podcast is a lot easier though, because like, and, and for, for some background here, like we basically never prepare for these podcasts at all. Like, we'll do. We maybe have like three or four bullet points, but then we don't usually talk about those bullet points anyway. When, when we, when we take the time to have anything prepared before we start. We never even cover them or,

Collin: 25:12

I,

Joel: 25:13

but like it's, there's not so much pressure. I think, um, you're doing something that's like, I don't know. It's, it's weird because it, it should be the equivalent of standing in front of like 200 people, but it's not. It's just you and me on this call.

Collin: 25:31

That's true. And uh, and also you can edit it. So if you hit a, if you hit a point where you're like, listen, I just do not remember what I was gonna say. Like, I saw a baby fox outside or something. I dunno what they have in Oxfordshire. I saw a baby fox outside or something. Uh, and um, You know, and you need to start over again. Like you can do that. But, uh, and also I think it is, you know what a podcast is a little bit like, it's a little bit like giving a panel, being on a panel at a conference. And I will tell you, I've been on Panels at Conference, absolutely recommend it because it is like a talk, but you don't have to write a talk.

Joel: 26:07

Mm-hmm.

Collin: 26:08

And I, I, I'm, I'm a big fan of those. Uh, I don't know if you've ever done anything like that, but it's, um, that's, that's really fun. And yeah, I do, you

Joel: 26:17

you're, if you're given questions and, and there is conversation going between multiple people, I think it's a lot easier to jump in and like share your experience.

Collin: 26:25

yeah.

Joel: 26:26

Whereas if you have to stand up there and you are like, you have an hour or whatever it is, um, and everyone is looking directly at you and paying you a hundred percent attention, I think, I think the thing about podcasts is my expectation is that the people who listen to this are, are often listening quite passively and it's cuz that's how I listen to podcasts. And so it's okay for it to not be like super polished and super interesting. Um, no one's like sitting down and like, I'm gonna sit down to watch this podcast.

Collin: 27:00

Mm-hmm.

Joel: 27:00

Um, I, or maybe they are, if, I mean, write to us if you are, but, um, I don't, I don't think, I mean, I listen to podcasts. I listen to a ton of podcasts, like on the school run and things like that, like when I'm driving.

Collin: 27:14

Mm-hmm.

Joel: 27:15

Um, and I, I don't mind if there's a bit of rambling, if there's like, I don't know. A bit of banter and not necessarily like this.

Collin: 27:25

Yeah, I think there are podcasts that are very edited and like very like meticulously thought out. Like we try and put together like a little outline, especially if we have a guest. I think we try and make sure like, you know, we know what they, you know who they are and like what to talk about. But I think that for me, when I listen to a podcast, um, I think there are ones which are very edited, and then there are ones which are a little bit more loose and that, and those are both acceptable genres because I think in the kind of looser ones, uh, My feeling is it's kind of like, oh, I'm hanging out with my friends Colin and Joel or whatever, right? Like it's, uh, that's kind of the vibe of it versus if this was something where it's like very edited and we had like stingers between each topic and it was like, you know, uh, that kind of a thing. That's just a different sort of show. And those, those are also good. They're just different.

Joel: 28:15

Yeah. Yeah. I, I tend to listen to more on the other side. Um, I mean, I listen to, I don't listen to that many podcasts outside of basically all the Ruby podcasts, apart from one. I do listen to another podcast, which is very well put together, but I think they do it like, I think they pretty much wing it. Um, and that's no such thing as a fish, which is just freaking brilliant. And that's like a lot more put together and like, like it's, it's perfect. They're, they're so well produced. But, um, yeah, I don't know. I think, I don't really know what I'm saying. I think as, as far as our episodes go, this is definitely the most like

Collin: 28:57

This is a pretty loose one, but I think it's gonna be great. I think it's, I think it's gonna be good, um, because, uh, I'm gonna be honest, I'm a little loopy from all the, all the driving and, uh, I, I think it'll be fun to have this one before, uh,RailsConf and then have it after. And also I'm gonna try and, uh, you know, I'm, this is gonna come out. I might put this one out. We might try and put this one out a day early. So it kind of starts whenRailsConf starts. So many more people hear it. So if you're there and you see me one say hi, because I'm, I'm there to make friends. That's, that's what we're doing. Uh, two because, uh, I need to give someone all these stickers I got made. And three, because I'm gonna bring my little portable recorder and, uh, try and get people just, maybe we can put together like a clip show or something. Uh, we'll, we'll see how well it goes. Uh, I have to be very. I have to be very extroverted to pull that off. So, uh, I'm gonna do my best, but we'll see how it goes. I think it'll be interesting though, uh, doing it before and after. Um, yeah. Atlanta should be interesting. It's, uh, it's a city I've never been to before. I've never been to the south either, so it'll, it'll be cool.

Joel: 30:00

Sounds, sounds great. I, I wish I was going, but

Collin: 30:04

Yeah. Next year.

Joel: 30:05

yeah. Maybe next year. Do we want to go into like anything else at this point?

Collin: 30:10

I don't need to, I think this is great. We're gonna have like 25, 30 minutes of show here. It's gonna be a good one. So we're gonna check back in after the conference. Uh, but hopefully, uh, I think it, but I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm really excited. Um, do you have any, any final thoughts on conferences or anything for people who might be going to their firstRailsConf or something else?

Joel: 30:30

I don't think so. Um, Yeah, no, I mean, I guess maybe, so we talked about like introducing yourself. Um, I guess the other thing is like, look out for people who kind of want to introduce themselves but are too shy to do that and maybe introduce yourselves to them if, if you feel like you can,

Collin: 30:53

that's a great point. I've seen somebody do this, somebody did this to me actually last year atRailsConf, which is where people are standing in a circle and then one person is kind of like just sort of breaking the circle on the outside a little bit. Have you ever seen this? Cuz you're a little shy and you don't know anybody. I. And they're like, Hey, we can't have a broken circle. And they like make you like come in and you know, introduce yourself to everybody. So I think if you see that it's a really good, I don't know, I think everybody is there for the same reason. They're all there cuz they wanna meet other Ruby people, so you should not be shy to introduce yourself to them. I think that's the biggest takeaway for me.

Joel: 31:24

Yeah.

Collin: 31:25

And also like go to talks and stuff. I mean, that's important too.

Joel: 31:28

Yeah.

Collin: 31:29

Cool. Well, uh, with all of that being said, uh, I'm hoping to meet some listeners at the conference and, uh, also, you know, if you like the show, let your friends know and, uh, we will see you next week.